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Comment on How many of these facts are actually true? by Erik B

Erik B — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:04:59 +0000

Based on my research over the last six months, I essentially agree with these statements.

Each one of the issues mentioned is complicated and really can't be given justice in a few sentences saying true or false. The important issue to me is that this whole subject is very complicated and still very debatable. It is not settled. To say it is settled is a serious error and creates a "chicken little" effect. If someone disproves part of the argument they start to disbelieve the whole thing.

I want to respond to Benjamin, who gave a good response but seems to be wrong on some points. It is simply not possible to fully discuss all these issues to their fullest.

3) Most everything I read about the Greenland viking settlements states they were farmers that died due to the little ice age.
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/ioa/backdirt/Fall99/viking.html
http://www.ingebretsens.com/vikings.php
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_n7_v18/ai_19560107
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Comment on How many of these facts are actually true? by johnnyrockets16

johnnyrockets16 — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:37:59 +0000

None.

Jim Z must have written the "AGW denier handbook."
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Comment on How many of these facts are actually true? by CrazyConservative

CrazyConservative — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:14:59 +0000

It all must be true, as I wrote it. Sort of nice seeing my posts in someone elses post. I will refrain from commenting as I am slightly biased.
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Comment on How many of these facts are actually true? by antarcticice

antarcticice — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:02:59 +0000

1. Not true and just a sad rejigging of the scientists are in it for the money myth
2. Data from multiple sources show this is not true
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png
3. Easily proved not true, the areas the vikings lived in during MWP were on the South and South West coast these areas are still ice free with modern settlements in the same areas.
4. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11645
5. Talking about what happened 1 billion years ago is pointless given periods of significantly higher volcanic activity and Co2 of 10 times current levels, and Earth warming for the last 18,000 years is also not true, there was a warming which ended the last ice age 10,000 years ago the mean of this graph show a slight downward trend from around 8000 years ago.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png
6. PDO, ElNino and Solar activity have and do act on climate the first two are probably responsible for the periodic drops that can be seen in the long term temperature record
7. Given that polar bears hunt there main prey from ice, shrink polar ice will affect them, they have to hunt seals from ice because, yes they are good swimmers but seals are much better. The current state of their number is thought to be "Of the 19 recognized polar bear subpopulations, 5 are declining, 5 are stable, 2 are increasing, and 7 have insufficient data" hardly a population explosion given the large number of seals and the fact that as a large hunting animal they have few humans to deal with, which has been a problem for other large hunting animals like lions whose numbers are done to below 50,000 and their numbers are thought to be nearing endangered, there are ~25,000 Polar Bears, half the number of Lions
8. Red and orange is shrinking Blue is growing (not much blue to be seen)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glacier_Mass_Balance_Map.png
9. Laughably not true, although I sure Heartland will say otherwise
10. true for a change, of course without the 95% H20 we would be 30c colder compared to the relative small effect of the added co2 which is so far ~0.6c
11. Possible true (if you are an American) but if you live in current cooler areas of Eastern Europe or Northern Asia or Southern Africa were mosquito's are currently controlled/limited by cooler winters you might feel a little different.
12. The actual theory is that they will cause an increase in the long term (the next hundred years) so it's to early to say. There is some media hype and what seems to be deniers saying "you predicted this last Tuesday were are all the hurricanes"
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Comment on How many of these facts are actually true? by Charles M

Charles M — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:15:59 +0000

The coke bit is false but everything else can be easily documented except the co2 as a major green house gas is defiantly way off base from reality.
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Comment on How many of these facts are actually true? by JOHNNIE B

JOHNNIE B — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:26:59 +0000

U did Good…
Review the math laws on how to do averaging. U never do an average of an average. So all this temperature of the earths average temp. is wrong.
CO2 is made for the plants so that they could recycle the CO2 to O2 . The plant keeps the C which will break down into oil & gas.They say that the CO2 has increased to 380 ppm. Now convert that to percent of our atmosphere. That would be .000389 % of our atmosphere. O2 is at 20.9% . When working with other gases U look at the O2 level and if there is no change U are ok . The only Variable is toxic gases and normally U will see the O2 drop.
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Comment on How many of these facts are actually true? by Kepi

Kepi — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:07:59 +0000

1. True. They alter their data to keep the money coming in.

2. We're actually below average for the past 2000 years. 1000 years ago, you could farm in Greenland.

3.Well, that's what I get for not reading ahead. Yeah, Greenland supported farming.

4. Exactly right.

5. Wrong here. Many glaciers have gotten bigger in the past 18,000 years.

6. Exactly right again.

6. (Two 6's?) Exactly right. And no, alarmists don't bring that up. Just like they don't bring up most facts.

7. The Poles aren't melting, so there's no danger to polar bears.

8. Yeah, just the peninsula is melting. Antarctica gained 500 sq km last year.

9. More and more scientists are speaking out against global warming. Besides, consensus doesn't mean squat in science. There used to be a consensus that the Earth was flat.

10. .28% sounds right. The problem is, Co2 (supposedly, never been proven) makes more water vapor, which is the real "cause" of AGW. But we have no evidence of that, only evidence against it. Co2 doesn't even absorb heat. It's not a greenhouse gas.

11. True. It's especially hard when do dumb stuff like ban DDT- and 60 million people die needlessly of malaria.

12. Never have. We've been monitoring the weather for 120 years or so. That's insignificant in the long run. Climate is the change of hundreds or thousands of years. If you can only see 1/10 of the problem, how can you find the answer?
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Comment on How many of these facts are actually true? by yoak

yoak — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:19:59 +0000

Read "The History of Water" a very telling account of how North American fur trading affected various eco-systems. The removal of major forests affected erosion, flood control and water quality.

CO2 levels can be directly linked to de-forestation
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Comment on How many of these facts are actually true? by jim z

jim z — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:03:59 +0000

1. National scientific advisers depend on climate change research funding to stay in operation:

Used Car salesmen may not depend on you but it doesn't mean they don't want your money

2. During most of the past 2,000 years, the temp has been about the same or higher. Currently, we are barely over the average for the last 2,000 years. TRUE

3. During the medieval warm period (820 – 1040 AD), Greenland supported farming. Those areas previously farmed are now covered in glaciers. Obviously the melting and reformation of glaciers is a cyclical occurrence.
TRUE (I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE MIDDLE SENTENCE

4. The earth experienced a little ice age which ended around the late 1860's or so. This is about the time man started recording temperatures. This would be like measuring a lake depth after a severe drought, then worrying about it flooding as it rose to normal levels. THE LITTLE ICE AGE ENDED ABOUT 300 YEARS AGO

5. The earth has been warming for the last 18,000 years, since the last major glacier time period. During this time frame, the glaciers have been melting at a fairly consistent rate. Also, for most of the last 1 billion years, the earth had NO glaciers or ice coverage.
http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/i...
FALSE

6. The AGW theory states that CO2 is the primary driver of temperature. They arrived at this idea because they did not know of anything else which could cause it.
THAT PRETTY MUCH SUMS IT UP!!!!!!!

6. The Pacific Decadal Oscillation and sun spots provides a much better correlation to earths' temperature than CO2 levels ever have. (Do the references say that decadal oscillations and sunspots provide a better correlation than CO2?)
FOR A SHORT PERIOD PERHAPS. CLEARLY PDO DIDN'T CAUSE THE LITTLE ICE AGE OR OUR RECOVERY FROM IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7. Polar Bears are experiencing a population boom. POPULATION COUNTS ARE SUSPECT. THEY ARE DOING FINE HOWEVER

8. Many glaciers are expanding. Even Antarctica is growing on 98% of is land mass. Only 2% is melting.
YOU DIDN'T PROVIDE A TIME FRAME

9. There is no consensus on AGW. This was a lie that has been propagated by the media.
OF COURSE THERE IS NO CONSENSUS EXCEPT IN THE FANTASIES OF ALARMISTS

10. Yes we emit CO2 into the atmosphere and it is a greenhouse gas, but, we only contribute about .28% of all the greenhouse effect. Water vapor makes up about 95% of the greenhouse effect. CO2 and other trace gases round out the greenhouse gases at about 5% for all of them. Of that 5%, only 3% is CO2, and most of that is natural. Again, our contribution to the greenhouse effect is a paltry .28%
WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF OUR CO2 IS ABSORBED, HOW MUCH WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE ATMOSPHERE WITHOUT OUR INFLUENCE. CLEARLY WATER VAPOR DWARFS CO2 IN ITS ABILITY TO AFFECT CLIMATE. I HAVEN'T SEEN TO MANY CO2 SHOWERS LATELY.

11. The spread of disease is not attributed mainly to temperature. If this were the case, Florida would be a giant festering disease ridden cesspool. Economic standing is the primary determining factor in the spread of disease. Poor cultures can not fight the disease or eradicate the pests like more successful nations.
OF COURSE THAT IS GENERALLY TRUE

12. Natural climate disasters (hurricanes, cyclones, etc) have never been scientifically linked to global warming (whether natural or man made).
CERTAINLY NOT CREDIBLY LINKED. THE ISSUE IS WHETHER MAN HAS CAUSED GREATER CLIMATE DISASTERS NOT NATURE.
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Comment on How many of these facts are actually true? by Stinky Badger

Stinky Badger — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:47:59 +0000

It's a shame about all those Eskimos doing coke. don't they know weed is safer?
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